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TOPIC: PLEASE READ Concerning the Gas Super Sport 1 year

PLEASE READ Concerning the Gas Super Sport 1 year 8 months 6 days ago #716

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To whom it may concern:
I would like to provide some feedback on the Gas Super Sport Exhaust Rule Change Proposal by Past President Kevin Sheren.
Super Sport Exhaust Rules Proposal
The purpose of this rule change is being submitted for a couple of reasons:
The first is that a quality canister mufflers are next to imposable to find.
The second is the exhaust blows up into the pit mans face upon launch which is a safety issue.
The third reason is that 90% + do not meet the noise rule.
The fourth is that the class is more geared to the NEW BOATER. It will allow them to have a
40 to 50 mph boat and will allow the ready to run boats to compete.
This proposal concerns wording in the IMPBA Rule Book, Section I, Large Scale Gasoline,
Page I - 7, subsection Super Sport Class: See the following:
5. Muffler
All engines must have a canister type can muffler. Modifications may be made to the inside of
the muffler if they will still meet the noise level limitations currently in place in the IMPBA Rule
Book after modifications. If a single hole or exhaust tube/stack out of the muffler is used, the inside diameter must not exceed ¾”. If dual holes or exhaust tubes/stacks are used exiting the muffler, then the maximum inside diameter must not exceed ½” each. The canister type can muffler must be mounted directly to the exhaust flange of the engine. If a spacer is used for cooling between the muffler and the flange, a maximum spacer thickness of one inch (1”) will be allowed. Custom exhaust systems and or tuned pipes are not allowed.
Change to read:
5. Muffler
All engines must have a tuned pipe or canister exhaust. The exhaust MUST meet all current
IMPBA noise regulations (no megaphones).
FEEDBACK:
“The purpose of this rule change is being submitted for a couple of reasons:”
“The first is that a quality canister mufflers are next to imposable to find.”
>> several manufacturers/distributors sell quality canister mufflers – Warehouse Hobbies, Zippkits, etc.
“The second is the exhaust blows up into the pit mans face upon launch which is a safety issue.”
>> Not all canister mufflers exhaust upwards, and you don’t have to put your face in the path of the exhaust when the boat is launched.
“The third reason is that 90% + do not meet the noise rule.”
>> What kind of data is available to substantiate the claim of “90% + do not meet the noise rule”? Our boats with canister mufflers at the Marquette RC Boat Club are quieter than similar boats with tuned pipes.
“The fourth is that the class is more geared to the NEW BOATER. It will allow them to have a 40 to 50 mph boat and will allow the ready to run boats to compete.”
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>> If the class is geared toward the new boater, is a ‘new boater’ really capable of handling a 40 to 50 mph boat? This can be a big safety concern.
In addition, adding tuned pipes into the class will encourage more-experienced boaters to participate in the class, and this will put the ‘new boater’ at a disadvantage, and may quite possibly discourage him or her from continuing in the hobby.
===============================
From the December Roostertail:
Super Sport Exhaust Rules Proposal by Past President Kevin Sheren – Chris asked Kevin to talk about his change. Kevin tried to lay it out so it was real easy; all it does is promote the class. Most of the boats are over the noise limit and secondly, it’s a safety issue with the exhaust blowing right into the pit man’s face.
This allows the new boater to come in with the Aquacraft hull and the Horizon boat right out of the box since they come with tuned pipes. Kevin says the class will grow and bring in new people. The change benefits IMPBA and the members. Chris agrees with Kevin. These boats follow the Thunderboat engine rules. Kevin mentioned that D12 had the class. D12 Don elaborated on what they have been doing, external reliability changes but no internal changes. Several Directors had positive comments, including out newest Director Bob Kensill.
Kevin would like to have the proposal go out for a one-year trial, but it is ultimately up to the Board to decide. Several directors liked the one-year trial. Records Director Doug stated that records for the class would not be allowed with tuned pipes under the one year. Chris called for any additional comments. D2 Tom welcomed any RTR boats that met the rules for this class. Chris then called for a motion for a one-year trial,
D1 Luc offered & D2 Tom seconded. A vote followed:
D1 – Yes D5 – Absent D13 – Yes Nitro - Yes
D2 – Yes D6 – Abstain (Proxy) D14 – Yes PP - Yes Proposal
D3 – Absent D7 – Absent FE – Absent Passes
D4 – Yes D12 – Yes Gas – Yes
Outcome: Approved for one-year trial in 2014.
FEEDBACK:
“This allows the new boater to come in with the Aquacraft hull and the Horizon boat right out of the box since they come with tuned pipes. Kevin says the class will grow and bring in new people.”
>> The only AquaCraft Gas boat available uses a canister muffler, and Horizon no longer sells any gas boats, so the only ‘out of the box’ boat available, other than custom-made boats like Bonzi and Enforcer, has a canister muffler. There are no AquaCraft or Horizon boats currently available with tuned pipes.
“Outcome: Approved for one-year trial in 2014.”
>> Was the IMPBA membership polled and asked for their opinions before this trial was approved? Especially members like me who are already running in the class under the existing rules.
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>> I personally have spent over $1600 in the past year to get 2 boats with canister mufflers ready for this class (Pro Boat HyperSport 48 and AquaCraft Rio 51Z at $799 each) and with this rule change these boats will no longer be competitive against the tuned pipe boats. With the hull design of the Pro Boat HyperSport 48, there isn’t a way to put a tuned pipe into the boat, even if I wanted to.
>>The proposed rule change would have canister muffler and tuned pipe running together in one class, but the performance and speed difference between to two can be substantial.
>> We have run Gas Super Sport Class with canister mufflers at the Marquette race last year and the boats are pretty evenly matched.
I would like to propose a compromise that would satisfy both interests and would help further the Gas Super Sport Class – add a separate class or sub-class for Super Sport with Tuned Pipe, and leave the existing Super Sport Class with canister muffler as is and separate. This would help keep boats in both classes competitive.
I welcome your responses and/or comments.
Respectfully,
Jeffrey W. Benuzzi
20739 S CD
Last Edit: 8 months 6 days ago by Kevin Sheren.
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PLEASE READ Concerning the Gas Super Sport 1 year 8 months 5 days ago #717

I would think before a rule change is changed or up for a one year trial period the members would
have sometime to say about it or talk about it. To me it sounds like the 14 directors are running
the IMPBA. I race in the gas super sport class. Running tuned pipes with the canister mufflers is
not a fair race.

Chuck Crumley
20886 S
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PLEASE READ Concerning the Gas Super Sport 1 year 8 months 5 days ago #718

  • Paul Bychowski
  • Paul Bychowski's Avatar
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Men,

The board is not trying to "run the IMPBA". We are all just boat racers trying to have fun and we are all not perfect by a long shot. The board approved this for the 1yr trial yes, if the board said no it would goto the membership for a vote for the 1 yr trial. Based on all the "YES" votes from the directors I would say that this would be still be a 1 year trial for next year after this December's vote. I am sorry I didnt realize that I had members in District 4 that where so against this change, in my defence even if I voted "NO" for our district this would still be a trial rule based on Majority.

Paul

ps. I did look for RTR's with tuned pipes also, you can buy them from a websight called nitrorcx.com.
Beyond that, this class is for more than just rtr. Yes you can race rtr in this class, but you can build your own boat also. Yes there are atleast 3 canister mufflers i found searching this morning but there are 10-1 tuned pipes for cans. I personally dont know the boat you have but I cant see a boat not being able to change to a tuned pipe if so desired.

All in all this is just a trial rule, next year if when its voted on if it passes then you know it would have passed the vote for the trial and been voted again to be made a rule for the following year and likely passed.
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PLEASE READ Concerning the Gas Super Sport 1 year 8 months 3 days ago #722

I would like to thank Kevin Sheren, Paul Bychowski, and Chris Rupley for helping me bring my point of view on the proposed Gas Super Sport Exhaust Rule Change to the IMPBA membership. Even though Kevin did not agree with my position, I appreciate the fact that he was willing to help me get my letter posted.

I do indeed agree that allowing tuned pipes will potentially attract more people into the class, and I understand that we still have the option of running a canister muffler in the Super Sport Class along with the tuned piped boats, it’s just that the performance and speed difference between the two can be substantial.

The compromise solution of separating the two that I presented was meant to further the class and keep it viable and exciting as an entry-level class, because with tuned pipe boats added in and running against the canister muffler boats, I can see the guys with canister mufflers getting discouraged and dropping out of the class because their boats are no longer competitive. I don’t want to see that happen.

Sincerely,
Jeff Benuzzi
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PLEASE READ Concerning the Gas Super Sport 1 year 8 months 17 hours ago #726

Thanks Jeff. I too have a Superstock setup with a canister muffler but I'm all for the change to pipes. To be honest I raced it a few times with the canister muffler in place against stock boats that ran the pipes. I still won the class! SO while the pipes help it's much more than just a muffler or pipe to make it win!

I'll be modifying the boat to use a pipe now that it's official. Look forward to possibly running with you some day.
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PLEASE READ Concerning the Gas Super Sport 1 year 7 months 4 weeks ago #729

I agree with the new rule change. The canister muffler idea was a bad one from the beginning, for all the reasons Kevin listed in his proposal. Like Jim said, canister or pipe, no real difference in performance if you set up well and drive your "A" game. Even though we talk about this as a newbie class, I haven't seen many newbies at our local pond wanting to run the stock class. Tuned pipes are cheap and plentiful, so let's just use them. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
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