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TOPIC: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules

Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #61

The largest changes I have suggested are 2.a and 3.b

My arguments are as follows

2.a - I feel it is neccesary to cap the price of a legal combo so that in the event a boat twice the price with much better performance becomes available, that the established boats from the previous year are not immediately obsolete. These rules should be addressed every winter to keep up with the availabily of quality boats in the market.

3.b - I feel that allowing everyone access to the same power level, without specifying a brand is the best thing for competition. If you are new and you buy a Proboat .15, probably used, you should have access to the same power as everyone. If you buy a Miss Vegas Deuce, and blow the engine up the first day you run it (I did), you should be able to put a proboat .18 in your boat as an alternative to what did not work. If you have a Miss Vegas gen 1, you should be able to run the Q18 pipe that comes with the Duece, because it IS much quieter, and MAY have more RPM. If you have a Miss Vegas Duece, and Aeromarine comes out with a $390 legal boat with an aggresive tuned pipe, and better engine, you should be able to drop $100 and keep up.
Last Edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Jeff Schindler.
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #62

Just to clarify my intentions on homemade parts, they should be designed and fabricated with stock geometry and dimensions. I don't see the harm from running a different rudder blade as everyone has access to different styles( modifying stock blade, buying one from aircapitolhobbies, speedmaster, etc.) The stock rudders are cast aluminum which might as well be pot metal in terms of durability. The options I am for are more for making the boat finish a race and not improving top speed. The Deuce is a very good hull platform to build from and that's about it, completely stock it's very hard to race without some issues. On the issue of motors and pipes, I think that if a cap is put into place on what a replacement engine should not exceed, that will help keep prices low from the manufacturers. They can only do so much for x amount of dollars. Not sure what a Proboat .18 costs but a Supertigre can be had for $100. Make the cap close to these prices and problem should be solved with powerplants.
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #67

Jeff, I like what I see. Perhaps we could add that to the first post and update it there as we go along?

Those who want to add or reword part of the rules should refer to each item as Jeff did: 2.a - I feel it is neccesary to cap the price of a legal combo.....

And 3.b bla bla blabity bla...

and so on....

Jeremy, I like your thinking also...

Tim
Last Edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Timothy Strange.
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #69

One thing I did think of when everyone was talking about engines. About which engine and price. Something else that needs to be addressed I think is about modifying the engine. My opinion would be they need to remain stock. Yes I think there needs to be dollar limit because i'm sure theres someone out there somewhere that would spend a fortune to make it as fast as it can get.

What I would like to see with the class in whole would be to make it as fair to all racers and make it more of a drivers class.

I think what we need to do is write up the rules with all the input here and I guess you could have people vote on the rules that is written up. This is just and idea.
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #70

District 14

As you may or may not know we/AquaCraft has posted on there website a set of sport hydroplane racing rules for the Miss Vegas Product.

www.aquacraftmodels.com/techsupport/raci...uidelines-hydro.html

The intent of the rule/s is to help guide new people in a direction to get them started in there own racing career as well as fit the needs of the pro racer.


Also:
Please do me a favor and refrain from the word “Junk” when referring to mechanical issues the boat might have. Its REALY not as cut and dried or as easy as you might think to bring a product like this to market. It takes allot of people and lots of money.. Those of us who have spent the time and money to do this, really do need and appreciate your input but words like “Junk” or “Crap” or whatever, just do not motivate all that well. Yea yea.. I can here it now from some.. go jump of a cliff right!...lol


The rules we have on the AquaCraft website can be “Adjusted” to better fit the seasoned racer. Keep in mind pro racers that “new racers” are the goal.. right.. or?


Also.. IF.. the rule are kept as close to the boat product as delivered and problems arise with the boat mechanically i.e. Fuel tank, rudder bracket and radio box.. we are more apt to make changes (read in here the powers that be will listen much better to the racers now that I am here). Having said this IF.. We pros are allowed to continue to make changes (lots or after market and hand made parts) we might turn off the new comer… Not saying a poorly executed product cant…..

In other words please motivate us to make a better product for you.. WE want to make better products for all and to “ME” it starts on the race course.

Nothing here is right or wrong.. Just food for thought!

Grimracer
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #73

As Jeff mentioned earlier, We should focus on the INTENT of this class first...and proceed from there...

From Jeff Schindler's proposed rule model:

I. Intent
The intent of this class is to provide a low cost, highly competitive class of racing radio controlled model boats. The rational for making such a class is to provide a place for new boaters to experience our hobby, and yet be an attractive class to even the most seasoned racer. These goals are accomplished by making the class both low in cost using readily available high volume production boats and parts, and by keeping the rules up to date to allow all boats to have the same performance level.


From the Aquacraft Sport .18 Hydroplane guidelines:

This class of racing is intended only for similar sport hydroplane boats that are manufactured for the radio-control hobby. Drivers of all skill levels are welcome to participate.

Boats permitted for entry must not only be made for the R/C hobby, but also be available nationwide from hobby shops or e-commerce.


I think we should go with Jeff's suggestion for now and perhaps tweak the wording a bit later. The key items I see are:
I) Hydroplane...unless we want to allow Vees or Catamarans...we have nothing that limits this class to Hydros...after all my trophy says: SPORT RTR
II) Attracting the NEW boater to the hobby/sport as well as making it an attractive class to seasoned racers.
III) should be available nationwide from hobby shops or e-commerce
IV) Low in cost (LOL) using readily available high volume production boats and parts
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #74

Assuming that we want to stick with hydroplanes...I want to look at what boats are legal...

From Jeff's post:
2. Legal Ready to Run Boats

A legal ready to run boat must meet ALL of the following criteria.

a) The boat/engine/radio system must be available as a ready to run package retailing for a maximum of $400.00.
b) The boat as designed and sold must use nitro power not to exceed 0.18 cubic inches (3.0cc).
c) The hull must be a 3 point suspension hull, at least 25 inches and no more than 33 in length.

and from Aquacraft:
Production Sport Hydroplane Racing Rules (Nitro Engines)

To be allowed entry, your model boat must meet all of these criteria:

* It must be intended for the R/C hobby market.
* It must be distributed to and available from hobby shops and e-commerce nationwide.
* It must be a full-body hydroplane (known in the modeling industry as "Sport Hydroplane").
* It cannot resemble outrigger hydroplanes, tunnel hulls or catamarans.
* Its engine displacement must not exceed 0.189 cubic inches.

I propose the following:
    II) Legal Ready to Run (RTR) Boats
    A)It must be intended for the R/C hobby market
    B)It must be distributed to and available from hobby shops and e-commerce nationwide.
    C)The boat/engine/radio system must be available as a ready to run package retailing for a maximum of $400.00.
    D)The boat as designed and sold must use nitro power not to exceed 0.18 (0.189?) cubic inches (3.0cc).
    E)It must be a full-body hydroplane
    1)It cannot resemble outrigger hydroplanes, tunnel hulls or catamarans.
    2)The hull must be a 3 point suspension hull, at least 25 inches and no more than 33(?) in length.
Last Edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Timothy Strange.
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #75

Well...I'm kind of on a roll here so I want to move on to 3. Modifications. First, I would like to rename this section to Legal Modifications. Again, I will repost Jeffs and Aquacraft's suggestions...

From Jeff:
3. Modifications

a) Any Paint Scheme provided it is not profanity or offensive
b) Any engine / exhaust / hull combination provided it all comes from a legal boat as outlined in Section 2.
c) Any rudder, turn-fin, engine collet, shaft, prop, or strut may be used so long as the strut is not deemed an advantages planing surface compared to original equipment.
d) Any nitro fuel is allowed
e) Any control equipment including radio box, electronics, linkages, and battery may be used, as long as placement is not deemed advantages towards the Center of Gravity of the hull.

And Aquacraft:
You must race your boat only as it was designed by the manufacturer, with the following exceptions:

* You may use any radio equipment.
* You may use any glow plug.
* You may use any glow engine fuel (for example, with any nitro percentage).
* You may upgrade to any engine starting system, including changing the flywheel and cable coupler.
* You may use any propeller designed and sized for the stub shaft (but it is not legal, for example, to use 3/16" props on a 1/8" stub shaft).
* You may use any production turn fin and turn fin bracket.
* You may sharpen and polish hardware.
* You may change any silicone part, such as the fuel line or pipe coupler.
* You may paint your boat however you wish - in fact, we encourage it!
* You may scuff the paint.

I propose:
    III) Legal Modifications
    A) Changing the boats paint scheme/graphics is encouraged, as long as it is not profanity or offensive.
    B Engine
    1) Use of any engine from any legal boat as outlined in section II is allowed
    2) Engine starting system can be upgraded, including changing flywheel and cable coupler. However, the original starting system (pull start, Tiger Drive) must remain intact.

    C) Use of any Exhaust/Tuned pipe from any legal boat as outlined in section II is allowed.
    D) Any control equipment including radio box, electronics, linkages, and battery may be used, Radio box may be modified or changed, but must remain in the original location.

    E) Any percentage nitro fuel may be used.
    F) Any Glow plug may be used.
    G) Any turn fin/bracket may be used...home made or production
    H) Prop
    1) Any prop may be used
    2) Prop may, and should be, balanced and sharpened.

    I) Any prop shaft may be used, as well as any 1/8" or 3/16" stub shaft
    J) Any strut may be used, as long as it extends the exact distance from the transom as the original manufacture.
    K) Fuel tanks may be changed, but must remain in the stock location.
    L) Paint may be scuffed on ride surfaces.
    M) You may sharpen and polish hardware
    N) You may change any silicone part, such as the fuel line or pipe coupler.
    O) Weights may be added to the interior or exterior of hull to aid in stability.
    P) INTERNAL bracing may be added to the hull to promote longevity.
Last Edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Timothy Strange.
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #76

And on to part 4. What is illegal?

From Jeff:
4. What is illegal?
a) The rear wings, if originally equiped, must remain intact.
b) Additinal wings, spoilers, air dams, or fins if deemed to stabilize the boat at speed are NOT allowed.

and Aquacraft:
Any of the following will disqualify your boat from racing:

* You cannot modify the engine.
* You cannot modify the hull or remove detail parts.
* You cannot modify the tuned exhaust system.
* You cannot add an on-board fuel mixture system.
* You cannot use hand-made parts.
* Performance-enhancing repairs are also prohibited.


I propose:

IV) What is Illegal?
A) You cannot modify the engine.
B You cannot modify the hull or remove detail parts.
1) Rear wings must remain intact
2) Additional wings, spoilers, air dams, or fins if deemed to stabilise the boat at speed are NOT allowed.

C) No third channel fuel mixture is allowed.
Last Edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Timothy Strange.
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Re: D-14 RTR 18 hydro rules 3 years 10 months ago #77

Would really like to see the addition of the use of a back plate (cheap enough) and the use of 1/8" stubs only.. You can buy a good cable or new complete drive cable and stub quite easily..

One thing to keep in mind.. or at least I try too..

New boat owners LIKE TO BUY fun parts for there boat.. Just like a bitchen set of rims for your rice burner.. (our upgrade Grimracer turn fin is an example of this). But we also have to be mind full of the (Pipe or prop of the week club). That can get expensive and felt like its needed to win.

Grim
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